Why I Don't Go To Church Anymore by Wayne JacobsenWhy I Don’t Go To Church Anymore: Living in the Relational Church – Part 6

By Wayne Jacobsen

BodyLife • May 2001

Dear Fellow-believer,

I do appreciate your concern for me and your willingness to raise issues that have caused you concern. I know the way I relate to the church is a bit unconventional and some even call it dangerous. Believe me, I understand that concern because I used to think that way myself and even taught others to as well.

If you are happy with the status quo of organized religion today, you may not like what you read here. My purpose is not to convince you to see this incredible church the same way I do, but to answer your questions as openly and honestly as I can. Even if we don’t end up agreeing, hopefully you will understand that our differences need not estrange us as members of Christ’s body.

Where do you go to church?

I have never liked this question, even when I was able to answer it with a specific organization. I know what it means culturally, but it is based on a false premise—that church is something you can go to as in a specific event, location or organized group. I think Jesus looks at the church quite differently. He didn’t talk about it as a place to go to, but a way of living in relationship to him and to other followers of his.

Asking me where I go to church is like asking me where I go to Jacobsen. How do I answer that? I am a Jacobsen and where I go a Jacobsen is. ‘Church’ is that kind of word. It doesn’t identify a location or an institution. It describes a people and how they relate to each other. If we lose sight of that, our understanding of the church will be distorted and we’ll miss out on much of its joy.

Are you just trying to avoid the question?

I know it may only sound like quibbling over words, but words are important. When we only ascribe the term ‘church’ to weekend gatherings or institutions that have organized themselves as ‘churches’ we miss out on what it means to live as Christ’s body. It will give us a false sense of security to think that by attending a meeting once a week we are participating in God’s church. Conversely I hear people talk about ‘leaving the church’ when they stop attending a specific congregation.

But if the church is something we are, not someplace we go, how can we leave it unless we abandon Christ himself? And if I think only of a specific congregation as my part of the church, haven’t I separated myself from a host of other brothers and sisters that do not attend the same one I do?

The idea that those who gather on Sunday mornings to watch a praise concert and listen to a teaching are part of the church and those who do not, are not, would be foreign to Jesus. The issue is not where we are at a given time during the weekend, but how we are living in him and with other believers all week long.

But don’t we need regular fellowship?

I wouldn’t say we need it. If we were in a place where we couldn’t find other believers, Jesus certainly would be able to take care of us. Thus, I’d phrase that a bit differently: Will people who are growing to know the Living God also desire real and meaningful connections with other believers? Absolutely! The call to the kingdom is not a call to isolation. Every person I’ve ever met who is thriving in the life of Jesus has a desire to share authentic fellowship with other believers. They realize that whatever they know of God’s life is just in part, and only the fullest revelation of him is in the church.

But sometimes that kind of fellowship is not easy to find. Periodically on this journey we may go through times when we can’t seem to find any other believers who share our hunger. That’s especially true for those who find that conforming to the expectations of the religious institutions around them diminishes their relationship with Jesus. They may find themselves excluded by believers with whom they’ve shared close friendship. But no one going through that looks on that time as a treat. It is incredibly painful and they will look for other hungry believers to share the journey with.

My favorite expression of body life is where a local group of people chooses to walk together for a bit of the journey by cultivating close friendships and learning how to listen to God together.

Shouldn’t we be committed to a local fellowship?

That has been said so often today, that most of us assume it is in the Bible somewhere. I haven’t found it yet. Many of us have been led to believe that we can’t possibly survive without the ‘covering of the body’ and will either fall into error or backslide into sin. But doesn’t that happen inside our local congregations as well?

I know many people who live outside those structures and find not only an ever-deepening relationship with God, but also connections with other believers that run far deeper than they found in the institution. I haven’t lost any of my passion for Jesus or my affection for his church. If anything those have grown by leaps and bounds in recent years.

Scripture does encourage us to be devoted to one another not committed to an institution. Jesus indicated that whenever two or three people get together focused on him, they would experience the vitality of church life.

Is it helpful to regularly participate in a local expression of that reality? Of course. But we make a huge mistake when we assume that fellowship takes place just because we attend the same event together, even regularly, or because we belong to the same organization. Fellowship happens where people share the journey of knowing Jesus together. It consists of open, honest sharing, genuine concern about each other’s spiritual well being and encouragement for people to follow Jesus however he leads them.

But don’t our institutions keep us from error?

I’m sorry to burst your bubble here, but every major heresy that has been inflicted on God’s people for the last 2,000 years has come from organized groups with ‘leaders’ who thought they knew God’s mind better than anyone around them. Conversely, virtually every move of God among people hungering for him was rejected by the ‘church’ of that day and were excluded, excommunicated or executed for following God.

If that is where you hope to find security, I’m afraid it is sorely misplaced. Jesus didn’t tell us that ‘going to church’ would keep us safe, but that trusting him would. He gave us an anointing of the Spirit so that we would know the difference between truth and error. That anointing is cultivated as we learn his ways in his Word and grow closer to his heart. It will help you recognize when expressions of church you share life with becomes destructive to his work in you.

So are traditional congregations wrong?

Absolutely not! I have found many of them with people who love God and are seeking to grow in his ways. I visit a couple of dozen different congregations a year that I find are far more centered on relationship than religion. Jesus is at the center of their life together, and those who act as leaders are true servants and not playing politics of leadership, so that all are encouraged to minister to one another.

I pray that even more of them are renewed in a passion for Jesus, a genuine concern for each other and a willingness to serve the world with God’s love. But I think we’d have to admit that these are rare in our communities and many only last for a short span before they unwittingly look to institutional answers for the needs of the body instead of remaining dependent on Jesus. When that happens do not feel condemned if God leads you not to go along with them.

So should I stop going to church, too?

I’m afraid that question also misses the point. You see I don’t believe you’re going to church any more than I am. We’re just part of it. Be your part, however Jesus calls you to and wherever he places you. Not all of us grow in the same environment.

If you gather with a group of believers at a specific time and place and that participation helps you grow closer to Jesus and allows you to follow his work in you, by all means don’t think you have to leave. Keep

in mind, however, that of itself is not the church. It is just one of many expressions of it in the place where you live.

Don’t be tricked into thinking that just because you attend its meetings you are experiencing real body life. That only comes as God connects you with a handful of brothers and sisters with whom you can build close friendships and share the real ups and downs of this journey.

That can happen among traditional congregations, as it can also happen beyond them. In the last seven years I’ve meet hundreds if not thousands of people who have grown disillusioned with traditional congregations and are thriving spiritually as they share God’s life with others, mostly in their homes.

Then meeting in homes is the answer?

Of course not. But let’s be clear: as fun as it is to enjoy large group worship and even be instructed by gifted teachers, the real joy of body life can’t be shared in huge groups. The church for its first 300 years found the home the perfect place to gather. They are much more suited to the dynamics of family which is how Jesus described his body.

But meeting in homes is no cure-all. I’ve been to some very sick home meetings and met in facilities with groups who shared an authentic body life together. But the time I spend in regular body life I want to spend face to face with a group of people. I know it isn’t popular today where people find it is far easier to sit through a finely-tuned (or not so finely-tuned) service and go home without ever having to open up our life or care about another person’s journey.

But ultimately what matters most to me is not where or how they meet, but whether or not people are focused on Jesus and really helping each other on the journey to becoming like him. Meetings are less the issue here than the quality of relationships. I am always looking for people like that wherever I am and always rejoice when I find it. In our new home in Oxnard, we’ve found a few folks and are hopeful to find even more.

Aren’t you just reacting out of hurt?

I suppose that is possible and time will tell, I guess, but I honestly don’t believe so. Anyone who is engaged in real body life will get hurt at times. But there are two kinds of hurt. There’s the kind of pain that points to a problem that can be fixed with the right care – such as a badly sprained ankle. Then there’s the kind of pain that can only be fixed by pulling away – as when you put your hand on a hot stove.

Perhaps all of us have experienced some measure of pain as we have tried to fit God’s life into institutions. For a long time most of us hung in there hoping if we tweaked a few things it would get better. Though we could be successful in limited ways during moments of renewal, we also discovered that eventually the conformity an institution demands and the freedom people need to grow in Christ are at odds with one another. It has happened with virtually every group formed throughout the history of Christianity.

Are you looking for the perfect church?

No, and I don’t anticipate finding one this side of eternity. Perfection is not my goal, but finding people with God’s priorities. It’s one thing for people to struggle toward an ideal they share together. It’s another to realize that our ideals have little in common.

I make no secret of the fact that I am deeply troubled by the state of organized Christianity. Most of what we call ‘church’ today are nothing more than well-planned performances with little actual connection between believers. Believers are encouraged toward a growing dependency on the system or its leadership rather than on Jesus himself. We spend more energy conforming behavior to what the institution needs rather than helping people be transformed at the foot of the cross!

I’m tired of trying to fellowship with people who only view church as a two-hour a week dumping ground for guilt while they live the rest of the week with the same priorities as the world. I’m tired of those who depend on their own works of righteousness but who have no compassion for the people of the world. I’m tired of insecure people using the Body of Christ as an extension of their own ego and will manipulate it to satisfy their own needs. I’m tired of sermons more filled with the bondage of religion than the freedom of God’s love and where relationships take a back seat to the demands of an efficient institution.

But don’t our children need church activities?

I’d suggest that what they need most is to be integrated into God’s life through relational fellowship with other believers. 92% of children who grow up in Sunday schools with all the puppets and high-powered entertainment, leave ‘church’ when they leave their parents’ home? Instead of filling our children with ethics and rules we need to demonstrate how to live in God’s life together.

Even sociologists tell us that the #1 factor in determining whether a child will thrive in society is if they have deep, personal friendships with nonrelative adults. No Sunday school can fill that role. I know of one community in Australia who after 20 years of sharing God’s life together as families could say that they had not lost one child to the faith as they grew into adulthood. I know I cut across the grain here, but it is far more important that our children experience real fellowship among believers rather than the bells and whistles of a slick children’s program.

What dynamics of body life do you look for?

I’m always looking for a people who are seeking to follow the Living Christ. He is at the center of their lives, their affections and their conversation. They look to be authentic and free others to hurt when they hurt, to question what they question and to follow his voice without others accusing them of being divisive or rebellious. I look for people who are not wasting their money on extravagant buildings or flashy programs; where people sitting next to each other are not strangers; and where they all participate as a priesthood to God instead of watch passively from a safe distance.

Aren’t you giving people an excuse to sit home and do nothing?

I hope not, though I know it is a danger. I realize some people who leave traditional congregations end up abusing that freedom to satisfy their own desires and thus miss out on church life altogether. Neither am I a fan of ‘church hoppers’, who whip around to one place after another looking for the latest fad or the best opportunity to fulfill their own selfish desires.

But most of the people I meet and talk with are not outside the system because they have lost their passion for Jesus or his people, but only because the traditional congregations near them couldn’t satisfy their hunger for relationship. They are seeking authentic expressions of body life and pay an incredible cost to seek it out. Believe me, we would all find it easier just to go with the flow, but once you’ve tasted of living fellowship between passionate believers, it is impossible to settle for anything less.

Isn’t this view of church divisive?

Not of itself. People make it divisive when they demand that people conform to their revelation of truth. Most of us on the journey are accused of being divisive because freedom can be threatening to those who find their security in a religious system. But most of us aren’t trying to recruit others to leave their congregations. We see the body of Christ big enough to encompass God’s people however he calls them to gather.

One of the things often said about traditional church is that Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in American culture. We only meet with people who look like we do and like things the way we do. I’ve found now that I have far more opportunity to get with people from a broader cross-section of his body. I don’t demand others do it my way and I hope in time that those who see it differently will stop demanding we conform to theirs.

Where can I find that kind of fellowship?

There’s no easy answer here. It might be right in front of you among the fellowship you’re already in. It might be down the street in your neighborhood or across a cubicle at work. You can also get involved in compassionate outreaches to the needy and broken in your locality as a way to live out his life in you and meet others with a similar hunger.

Don’t expect this kind of fellowship to fall easily into an organization. It is organic, and Jesus can lead you to it right where you are. Look for him to put a dozen or so folks around your life with whom you can share the journey. They may not even all go to the same congregation you do. They might be neighbors or coworkers who are following after God. Wouldn’t that kind of interconnection among God’s people yield some incredible fruit?

Don’t expect it to be easy or run smoothly. It will take some specific choices on our part to be obedient to Jesus. It may take some training to shake off old habits and be free to let him build his community around you, but it is all worth it. I know it bothers some people that I don’t take my regular place in a pew on Sunday morning, but I can tell you absolutely that my worst days outside organized religion are still better than my best days inside it. To me the difference is like listening to someone talk about golf or actually taking a set of clubs out to a course and playing golf. Being his church is like that. In our day we don’t need more talk about the church, but people who are simply ready to live in its reality.

People all over the world are freshly discovering how to do that again. You can be one of them as you let him place you in his body as he desires.


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25 Comments
  1. Marlene February 26, 2017 at 6:06 pm - Reply

    Interesting article. Don’t attend a church building anymore…Have been weaned from depending on a pulpit to feed me..Since I’ve left conventional worship services, have grown in his word and the Lord sustains me every day.. Do visit a building on occasion and leave happy to go home and get into the word of God.. “The word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” Psalm 119:105

  2. Ed June 11, 2017 at 8:29 am - Reply

    I think there’s too many “ordinary” people in church. I dont see much difference. Probably a lot of hypocrites. They like their affluent lifestyles, wealth, expensive vehicles, social popularity clubs, ect..
    I’ve seen and experienced more acts of kindness and good in people who don’t go to church. Or are not even “believers”. Its all relevant. Besides I like my comfort zones. I don’t socialize too much. Its draining being around people all week at work! I enjoy solitude.

  3. Melissa July 9, 2017 at 10:15 am - Reply

    This is a great article. I have read a lot of other articles on the same subject but this article hit the nail on the head for me. I have tried to go to several churches and I will go for a while , try to make friendships for fellowship and it seems like people just want to come to church get their church on and leave. I study the word on a daily basis so listening to a sermon is usually hearing the same thing over and over again. Worship is nice but worshipping alone is nicer. So I deal with it. It does not help that I am a loner for the most part myself. Artists just like artists are like that. Thanks for writting this. Stay close to Jesus Bro.

  4. Madie October 1, 2017 at 9:37 am - Reply

    Hallelujah!!!!!
    You blessed me on every point. I just had a cordial debate with my sister who is still in the institution. I told her I am ‘Freed’!
    Do you know Richard Jacobson – The Unchurching?

    • Wayne Jacobsen October 1, 2017 at 12:54 pm - Reply

      No, sorry I don’t know Richard. We’ve exchanged some email a while back, but that is it.

  5. Buckeye Conservative October 10, 2017 at 1:21 pm - Reply

    Church? A feel good place with a preacher just getting back from a three month sabbatical spouting platitudes and telling everyone to be more “welcoming” (so they get more members to contribute to hiring more people on the staff). And all this “church speak” of being blessed when something happens that you prayed for or for meeting on the street someone seems to smile at you – – I’ve been blessed. Get real.

  6. Ivan November 21, 2017 at 7:41 am - Reply

    A brief synopsis of myself born to a church family a father ( an Elder) and mother who got it. My father in love with Jesus brought the fellowship to our church people constantly sought him. He died at an early age of 51. I went to Bible College got married was a youth minister then wife left me. Worked in factory went back to school now have worked in hospital for 35 years. I remarried we had 2 boys. We felt called to Missions (or perhaps our inner desire for fellowship)and became missionary’s came back after a year and I went back to hospital. Our boys after high school neither one stayed in the church one went to Bible College and left because they brought in business men to teach how to run church. My sons growing up in our home witnessed my aching heart every Sunday when we left church I constantly said to myself there has got to be something better more fellowship less telling me what to do and not to do my sons heard my thinking as children do. We made our home a place of peace and our boys grew up in that with there friends who loved coming to our house therefore my sons got what they needed from fellowships with fiends some in an outside the church. I became an Elder and this was stressful more on getting things done I was in charge of. My youngest became involved with a few we think he had compassion on who eventually got him into drugs and eventually alcohol which he could not handle. He joined the Army saw best friends killed came home got involved with a girl who also had left the church got pregnant. My mother fought cancer for 8 years and my youngest could not handle it so became drunk one evening after seeing my mother on here death bed and wrecked and he died my mother then died the same day. So much for a brief synopsis I’m sorry for sharing so much about me and there is tons more to share. But after writing this I am hungry to share this to help others seek Jesus who has helped us in our highest and lowest times. God is a God of suffering and that is where he meets us the most but that is rarely talked of deeply in church. Now last Sunday i took my son who died daughter and here stepsister to church and guess what I was thinking on my way home there has got to be something better I didn’t voice it but do you think my grandkids heard it. You bet ya. I now have my best fellowship with nonbelievers and believers who meet every 3 week a support group for parents who have lost children they are real cut to the heart share there pain there garbage I finally feel a place I belong. I don’t have an answer for the church I fellowship with those I can who thirst after Christ with at work and in the church but it’s few and far between times.
    I
    thank God for my wife for we are of the same mindset. Thank you for this article I think I have read part of this before. Now I am thinking I will pray and look more for a few we could start meeting with. I don’t blame the church my hospital works prevents me from meeting more with people but when I do it’s seldom deep.
    Thank you

    • Wayne Jacobsen November 21, 2017 at 10:25 am - Reply

      Ivan, I’m so sorry for all that you have been through in recent years. Thanks for being so honest about your journey and I’m glad you come out of all of this with a heart to really connect with Jesus and his people, whether that be at “a church”, in a support group, or just in fellowship. God has a way for you through all this. There are lots of resources on the website that can help, but in the end it is the Spirit who sets us in the family as he desires. Look for how he is nudging you. What relationships around you are fruitful? Put more time there. Which are not? Lean away from those. My heart goes out to you and my prayers to our Father that he will comfort your heart and lead you and your wife into increasing interactions that encourage your journey and encourage others as well.

  7. Christine Chapman November 27, 2017 at 2:12 pm - Reply

    Mirrors my heart completely! So glad I’m not alone, it has been a difficult transition as even my family thinks I’ve lost it.

  8. D. Harvey December 6, 2017 at 7:21 am - Reply

    http://www.unknown-pearls.com/proof_evidence.html

    God has restored his church again on the earth in these latter days.

  9. James C Standlea January 4, 2018 at 3:53 pm - Reply

    Your article is interesting to say the least. Can you respond in regards to 3 topics. How do you submit to spiritual authority in your life? 1 Peter calls Christians to be subject to their elders/pastors in chapter 5, verse 5. How do you do that in your philosophy of church? Second, if you are constantly moving around, seeking believers to fellowship and mature with, how do you ever get to a point, where you can deeply know each other enough to have true fellowship? In my experience, true fellowship comes through time, commitment and work. Third, how can you be held accountable by other believers/elders if there are no real consequences that can be dealt to you? Do we just ignore Matthew 18:15-20 or are they not longer relevant? In the model of church that you support, there are no consequences for living in sin and really however you want. This would be in direct rebellion to texts like Matthew 18 and Romans 5-6.

    Thank you for your time as I am being sincere in my questions. Thanks and God bless!

    • Wayne Jacobsen January 4, 2018 at 4:29 pm - Reply

      Hi James. Thanks for posting some of your questions here. You’ll find more complete answers in my book, Finding Church, but I’ll give you a quick look here. As to (1), we’d probably disagree on what “submitting to spiritual authority” looks like. Jesus did not prescribe to any person “authority over” anyone. In fact in Mark 10 he specifically denies it to them. What Hebrews 13 and I Peter 5 are talking about is “yielding” to those sho are older than us in the Lord’s grace. For me it means to give great weight to the words of brothers and sisters further down the road than I am. It means I love them, listen to them, and make whatever task God has engaged them in easier by my cooperation with them. AS to (2) I don’t know what you mean by constantly moving around. In the area in which I live I have deeper relationships with fellow travelers than I eve did when I attended or pastored a church. We are engaged with each other’s lives; we just don’t attend services together. In my experience, true fellowship comes from friendship that derives from a growing connection to Jesus that allows people to be authentic, genuine, and gracious to others. It’s where people are known, heard, and loved and where honesty flows easily because no one has anything to hide. In conformity based settings there is always plenty to hide and people often put on their best faces along when their best clothes when they go to “Christian” meetings. As to (3) I don’t believe it is the purpose of the body of Christ to hold people accountable with rewards and punishments for those who don’t conform. What Matthew 18 and (I Corinthians?) 5 and 6 deal with is loving people who have been caught up in sin. The purpose is not to bring consequences to them, but to rescue them with honesty, love, and grace. People I know following Jesus don’t live “however they want,” but are learning to live inside the reality of God’s revelation in their heart. That transforms people from the inside out. I’ve been in both settings and honestly the reality of these passages can be lived out more effectively in relational realities rather than institutional one. I know that’s hard to see if you’ve only known institutional accountability, but that often leaves more broken relationships than it does restored people. We are accountable only to God, and servants of each other as we embrace that accountability. It’s a different way of seeing the same texts, but one that lets them live with grace and love transforming people rather than human pressure to manipulate change. So, no I would not consider myself in rebellion to those texts or to God…

    • John April 1, 2018 at 12:37 pm - Reply

      James, Jesus is pretty clear about spiritual authority: We have one Father (in heaven), one Teacher, Master, Pastor (Jesus) and the rest of us are brethren and servents to each other. Anyone who tries to exalt himself is humbled, and vice versa. He does say when he mentions Ekklesia that believers have the right to set someone straight who is walking in sin, but nowhere is there any sign of a hierarchy. Jesus knew where that would lead and avoided it. As Jesus is the only one we should listen to, that seems clear to me. Regards

  10. Phyllis Fletcher January 7, 2018 at 8:21 am - Reply

    Thanks for an interesting article. Years of going to church for 2 hours every Sunday has failed to help me live as a disciple every day. It was easy to do this and give my tithes…and the institution was happy. But I was not changing to be more like Christ, and I was disappointed and lonely. So what was the point? And when I did ask if some of our church practices and priorities were misplaced…whoa, the leading (controlling) families in that church did not smile on me anymore. When the vicious gossip made it back to me, I was crushed, and I stopped questioning. And I stopped going, and no one contacted me.

    • Wayne Jacobsen January 7, 2018 at 8:47 am - Reply

      What a sad story. I’m so sorry. I pray God is leading you on to more spacious places in his heart and among his true church in the world.

  11. Tabitha J February 8, 2018 at 6:21 pm - Reply

    I’ve been free from the politicized “church” system for almost three years now and I can say that I’ve never felt closer to God than I do now! My family and I were actually thrown out of a church three times. Someone went to the pastor and told him my mom said that God was going to get him so the pastor threw us out. He called us back apologizing but then he threw us out again. He called us back a second time and then threw us out again. He called us back a third time but we didn’t go back. We went to another church for a number of years and were a part of an organization where our church fellowshipped with others but the longer we stayed the more we realized that something just wasn’t right with the fact that all these “churches” are raising money to keep a light on in a building that God never commanded us to build. I’d see homeless on the streets, people sick with diseases and no means of receiving funds for treatments they need, and even church members who were scraping change to try and buy food for their families. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands who are starving worldwide. We decided we wanted to try and make a difference. My sister looked up what the estimate was on how much money it would take to solve world hunger and discovered it was around 10 billion dollars. I was really blown over when I learned that churches nationwide had raised over 30 billion dollars in the year 2014 alone. If they didn’t give money to supporting inanimate structures they could have solved world hunger three times over. Not to mention the fact that the Bible gives us specific instructions on where tithes and offerings are supposed to go and it’s to the orphans, widows, and homeless. So why are “church” officials using the money that the Bible says should be used for orphans, widows, and homeless and using it for buildings that they don’t need? I have been spreading this message everywhere I go not as a means to put people down, no. On the contrary, I want to lifet them up so that they can experience the same freedom I, my family, and so many others that we fellowship with now have. There are many in these buildings who are just as sick of the ritualism and glorified politics as anyone and they want something different but are afraid to leave for fear they’ll be labeled as a “backslider”. I was afraid to leave for a long while. Reason being, I grew up in church. I was literally almost born on the pew. It was hard to leave but I knew it was something The Lord was leasing me to do! Mt family and I now have a homeless mission we’ve started and have expanded it recently to include the elderly who are stuck in nursing homes, convalescent homes and hospice facilities. We’ve even traveled to several other states and orchestrated with various pastors who have pulled out of their organizations and have started homeless missions in their states and they since been sooo blessed! It’s all so exciting!

    • John April 1, 2018 at 12:32 pm - Reply

      Hi Tabitha, I love you enthusiasm: “it’s all so exciting!” that’s what it should be all about. It’s great to swap “creed” for “deeds”. For too long I’ve spent great energy trying to decipher Paul and all the great “christian” thinkers. I could have used that time for what Jesus tells us to do: loving our neighbour. Your story is so inspiring! Blessings

  12. jacqueline March 22, 2018 at 10:08 am - Reply

    Hebrews 10:25 tells us not to forsake the assembly…..that is scriptural

    • Wayne Jacobsen March 22, 2018 at 12:15 pm - Reply

      And what does that mean, Jacqueline? That everyone must attend a Sunday morning service in a local building called a “church.” Is that what you think the Hebrew Christians were doing, and that’s what this Scripture meant. Just because you can quote a proof text for your point of view does not mean that Scripture undergirds your point of view. The Hebrews being written to were under persecution and were thinking of hiding from each other so if they caught one family they wouldn’t catch them all. The writer is telling them they have more to gain by staying together and encouraging one another daily, than the risk from Rome in associating with each other. “Assembling together” does not mean going to an assembly of Christians; it means walking beside other Christ-followers where you have the opportunity to encourage each other every day, not sit in a religious service where everything happens on the stage. ‘

      Unfortunately this Scripture doesn’t teach what you think it does, and dropping it in here was at least insensitive the conversation you walked in on. People here are deeply passionate about following Jesus and “assembling with” other Christians in more engaging way that religious services encourage or allow. Yours is not the only interpretation of this verse.

    • John April 1, 2018 at 12:28 pm - Reply

      That is not the words of Jesus. He told us to listen to his words only if we want to be saved. He is the only shepherd that we sheep should listen to. And he says nothing about churches as we know them. “Where two or three are gathered together” does not, to my feeble mind, have much to do with the hierarchical organizations we have today.

  13. Jackie March 22, 2018 at 1:14 pm - Reply

    So we actually have to go to church? If we want to be biblical, yes. If we want to be wise, yes. If we want to grow up in the faith, yes. If we want to be realistic about how faith is nurtured and sustained over the long haul, yes.

    We all need Christ, His Word, His Spirit, and, not least of all, His bride. You can’t have a foundation without a house. You can’t have a head without a body. And you can’t have a groom without a bride. The New Testament knows nothing of unchurched Christianity. There is no Christianity without Christ and no Christ without His church. We need the individuals of the church and the institution of the church. We need the church as organism and organization. We need to be the church, and yes, we also need to go to church. Christ loves His bride, and so must we. Not in theory or from a distance, but in person, in the flesh, every week, for our good, and for God’s glory.

    • Wayne Jacobsen March 22, 2018 at 2:48 pm - Reply

      Jackie, I’m not going to put up all three of your rebuttals. One is enough. We try to share the bandwidth here so others can jump in. People are welcome to disagree, but when they misuse or misinterpret Scripture, others will disagree as well. You seem to think the ONLY expression of church meets a building on Sunday morning (or Saturday). Guess what? The early church didn’t have buildings, didn’t have pastoral staffs, they were brothers and sisters living in community and under the headship of Jesus. You’re assuming people who don’t “gather” the way you do are independent and isolated. I’d encourage you to take a look. The people I know who no longer attend “a church” are more engaged with Jesus an the bride than anyone I new who “went to church.” Church is family, not a meeting. It’s brothers and sisters who love and care for each other, and don’t just stay in a the same group of people as a formal obligation, but let their hearts assemble with each other as God gets to do his work in us. The Church of Jesus Christ is bigger than any institution could ever contain. It’s a family that encompasses the world, and you can assemble with them in lots ways. Some do it in buildings, some do it in homes, some do it in relationships of people who share their lives together. I don’t dismiss your view of church, but I embrace one that is bigger. I suspect you will one day, too and find out how limiting our institutions and denominations can be in embracing the whole body of Christ.

  14. John April 1, 2018 at 12:01 pm - Reply

    My problem with church is much more simple: they teach the gospel of Paul instead of the Gospel of Jesus. Sure, we mention Jesus’s name and say how wonderful he is, and flatter him and his Father will syrupy hymns. But the thing we never, ever talk about is what Jesus actually taught. I’m simply sick of hearing that I am saved by faith alone or by the atoning “blood sacrifice” of Jesus – two things he never talked about. Whenever I read from Jesus’s teachings, you can almost cut the air with a knife. This pretty much explains why we have had 2000 years of division and strife in organized religion. I guess I’ll be going churchless very soon and will devote myself to following Jesus’s words only.

  15. John April 1, 2018 at 12:25 pm - Reply

    With respect, Jackie, Jesus never said anything about churches as we know them. That was Paul. He only used the word we interpret as “church” (ekklesia) twice, and neither time mentions buildings, organizations and hierarchies. He knew very well that creating such organizations would lead to what we have today: thousands of different denominations who hate each other, a vast corrupt body called the RCC, and above all, false teachings. Blessings to you and your family, but everytime I go to a church I come back further away from Jesus.

  16. Brad Oliver May 2, 2018 at 7:44 pm - Reply

    Stumbled on to this post. If I am reading correctly, it was originally posted in 2001 and yet people are still commenting. That’s awesome! You have so perfectly expressed where I am at on this issue. Thank you for articulating so well what I have felt for so long. I view today’s institutional church as a form of idolatry. We spend so much time telling people to go to church — we forget — we ARE THE CHURCH! I stopped attending the local club house three years ago and finally have peace. I spent years upset, angry, frustrated, defeated from trying to reform the dysfunction of the instructional church — thank God, I am finally FREE. I now look forward to every Sunday morning! Yep — Sunday’s are a day of rest. Thanks for allowing me to share my own thoughts on this topic.

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